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Owning the Job Search with Jonathan Javier of Wonsulting
A live interview with onomy and Jonathan Javier, CEO of Wonsulting, discussing must-do tips to land that next job.
Jonathan Javier is the CEO/Founder of Wonsulting, whose mission is to “turn underdogs into winners”. He’s also worked in Operations at Snap, Google, and Cisco coming from a non-target school/non-traditional background. He’s been featured on Forbes, LinkedIn News, Yahoo! News, Jobscan, and Brainz Magazine as a top job search expert and has amassed 1M+ followers on LinkedIn, Instagram, TikTok while generating 30+ million impressions monthly on his content.
onomy: Today we’re talking with Jonathan Javier from Wonsulting. He has incredible advice about the job search, starting a new career, optimizing your resume. We’re going to talk to him today about all of that stuff and learn about how to get a job and the do’s and don’ts associated with job hunting, interviewing and the resume.
Jonathan: Well, we have a lot of people tune it. Look at that. It went from like a couple people to like 163.
onomy: Today we’re talking to the amazing Jonathan [of Wonsulting] about job hunting do’s and don’ts, resume do’s and don’ts, and some interviewing tips. Jonathan creates amazing content around all these topics. So we wanted to have him on and get some of his awesome expertise on these things. So I would love to kick things off and just get a quick intro on you, Jonathan, how did you start this account, and now your full-time job. Give us the background and then we’ll go from there.
Jonathan: Yeah, of course. Well, first off, thank you so much for having me. I’m Jonathan. I’m the CEO of Wonsulting. Our mission is turn underdogs into winners. So helping those who come from non-traditional backgrounds to help them get into their dream careers.
onomy: Love it. Amazing. So my first question that I would love to talk about is just some of the top mistakes that you see from people, such as myself, when applying to jobs what are some of the most common things that are holding people back from landing those first interviews? And what are most people doing wrong?
Jonathan: Yeah, of course. What I think are some of the biggest resume mistakes, the first one being that you have to make sure that you have quantifiable metrics and percentages on your resume to showcase the impact that you made in your role. So you want to make sure that you’re not just doing the responsibility, but you’re showcasing what you actually did as an impact. So that’s the first part.
The second part is you having the specific skills, whether it’s the hard skills or the tools from the job description or the job titles that you’re going for in your roles. Now, why does that make sense? For example, while I was hiring a marketing manager. I’m obviously looking for specific skills tailored towards marketing, whether it’s email marketing, whether it’s working with Active Campaign, which is the platform we use. So if a candidate doesn’t have that experience versus a candidate that does in the resume, I would know for a fact that the person who has on their resume is a qualified candidate. So you want to make sure that your specific hard skills and tools are on your resume.
And last but not least, I think what a lot of people do is put an objective. The objective, you can always omit. The reason is, your objective is to get a job there. And you can utilize that space to showcase more impact on the resume and also have more bullets that can showcase all the great things you’re doing.
So those three things are very important. And if you need a resume template, definitely you can check that out in my bio, you can check one out Onomy’s bio as well. I believe that those ones are really good, especially to structure your resume in a clear and concise format.
onomy: I’d love to hear your take on the nice looking resume versus the traditional standard format.
Jonathan: So it totally depends on what field you are in. I was talking about having a traditional resume. The reason is because it’s very clear and concise, and you can showcase your impact, showcase the work experiences, the leadership experiences, your education very easily. So I would recommend that format for traditional resume. You can’t go wrong. But if you’re in a very creative field, for example, let’s say you’re in UX. Let’s say for UX designers, most of their resumes are actually two columns or it’s just very creatively formatted and very contracture. So that can be a different avenue that you can utilize for a more creative resume for the UX design field.
But all like your resume should be structured, where it’s, if you’re student, education first, work experience, leadership experience, then your skills, interests are optional. And then if you’re not a student, you should have work experience, leadership experience, education and skills and interests. The reason why is because you just want to make sure that as a student, a university recruiter or someone from university who would see your resume and be like, “This person is a student. Super simple! Because the education is at the top.” For the other ones, you want to make sure that work experience is first, because those are the ones that matter the most. If you want to put projects first, you could. But what’s the one thing that you’re going to talk about the most during your interview that’s going to help you stand out and get past those rounds to get you those offers?
onomy: I saw something on one of your videos with tips to about that like interests’ section at the bottom, and I’d love to hear a little bit more about why that could work. How does that help you in your interviews, and how big should that section be?
Jonathan: I always say you can have interests optional, because just in case people don’t have enough space. But there’s always ways you can save space. In my videos, I talk about how you can see space on your resume. For interests, the reason why I love putting it is because, for example, one thing I love to do outside of work when I was first starting was help people get jobs. And then the second thing was basketball. So what would happen is a lot of during the interviews, a lot of them were actually when they were speaking to me one-on-one, what would happen is they would actually look at my interest and be like, “Hey, you like basketball.” And they’d be like, “I like basketball too.” So it brings in that common ground between you and the other interviewer, where you’re like, “We can vibe on…”
Then what happens is, the reason why I put that is, because some people will be like, “Well, why the heck would you put that? Why does that even matter?” In my opinion, the reason why it matters is because of that common ground, you have a special connection. But when you are doing follow up… The reason is when you have your follow up, then you can use like, “Hey, thanks for interviewing me for this position. I love how you spoke about the role. I also love how you and me and you vibed on the same interest, which is basketball.” I feel like it’s a great way to make that good first impression and get that connection between you and another person that’s outside of just work.
onomy: I saw a question from the audience. If you’re applying and you have only like one to two years of experience, and maybe you don’t have hard numbers to show your impact just yet, what’s a good way to substitute that or some way to display your impact?
Jonathan: Yeah. So what I would say is estimate. Estimate or ask your past peers. Now why, because what I used to do all the time when I was at Cisco for example, I didn’t know the exact metrics that I had, but I would do is I’d ask my manager and be like, “Hey, like how are you doing with this? What kind of impact did I make?” And they usually give me the numbers. The second part is doing estimations. Now, don’t do anything crazy. So for example, like if I said I improved revenues by 5000%, that’s obviously wrong.
Put things that are more realistic and that you can actually speak about during the interview. Because you’ll probably be asked, like, how did you increase it by x amount. So I would say those are the two ways that you can quantify your metrics, specifically through asking your manager and then also making estimations.
onomy: So another thing that I wanted to touch on too, what are some of the top ways to stand out [in the job search] that maybe we don’t think of or than just connecting on a commonality. Like what are some ways that people can really get in front of hiring managers and recruiters that they might not be doing?
Jonathan: What I think is, sometimes what’ll happen, when you reach out to hiring managers or recruiters they won’t respond. And the reason why is because they’re busy. And that’s totally okay. Like I’ll talk to my recruiter friends all the time, they’re like, “Jonathan, I get hit up all the time. And I can’t respond to everybody.” So look at people who can respond to you. And there’s other people who can.
I actually structure it like this. So I will say that there are four tiers of applying the rules. The tier four is applying. Tier three is getting referred. So someone refers you for the role but they’re not in the role. Let’s just say, sales analyst refers someone for a product design role. It’s a random referral. And then there’s tier two and tier one. Tier Two is a hiring team member. So if someone, for example, I’m going for an account executive role, and it’s another account executive on that team. And the actual hiring manager, it’s tier one, which is the actual hiring manager for that role.
If the hiring manager doesn’t respond, which tier one, totally okay. Go to tier two, I can go to tier two in two ways. Number one, you can find them on LinkedIn. So if you search, let’s just say, account executive, and then you go to this specific function they’re in. Let’s say you’re going through Google and its an account executive specifically for Google Play, the individuals that are working there, and you can reach out to them. That’s one part. The second part is if you work at a specific company or have worked at a specific company, and you know people who work at that company, who are friends, you can ask if they know who the hiring manager is. I’m telling you, they probably do. The reason why is because if you work for any company, you can see internally who the hiring manager or recruiter is for the role, and introduce to them.
But if you’re able to get recommended by them, you will get more of a response rather than you simply just reaching out.
onomy: That’s such a good tip. We got a lot of awesome questions in here. I want to ask some of these. Should I tell my interviewer that my reference is my boss who’s also my mother?
Jonathan: Well, one thing I would say… So basically what’s happening is – I’m trying to understand correctly – the person’s reference is their mom and working in a company where the mom is probably the manager.
Yeah, I mean, you could put that, but if you have other references, I think that would be much better. So if you’re able to find someone different, I think that makes more sense, rather than it being like a conflict of interest. Another thing too is only if they ask for references. Why I say this, because in most of my roles, I didn’t really ask for references. At Snapchat, they asked for references. I still remember this story. I can tell it another time. But just a quick story. I accidentally put the wrong person’s phone number – first reference. And they call it. It’s actually one of my friends. But he was really cool. And he actually was like, “Yeah, I worked with John,” which we did, but it was a different person. But it’s fine.
onomy: I’ll do one more and then we’ll wrap up. Why do companies have so many rounds of interviews? And how can you discern whether you’re maybe being taken advantage of with all the interviews? Like they asked you to do a project. And what are some tips for getting through that whole process if it is long?
Jonathan: I remember feeling the same way. I was interviewing at LinkedIn one time. I went through four rounds of interviews, and what happened was, unfortunately, I didn’t get the offer after four rounds. But the reason why companies will do this is because what happens is you get interviewed by a recruiter, you then get interviewed by maybe the hiring manager, then you get interviewed by the hiring team member. So there’s so many different rounds – and this is my personal opinion – because before investing into you, they want to make sure that you are that prime candidate. And sometimes they’ll give specific projects, because they want to see how you would react to those projects and how you would basically think about them.
For example, like a project that I used to do or when I interviewed at LinkedIn and DoorDash, I had to do an Excel test. So just those specific functions, because you could say on a resume, “I’m an Excel expert,” but if you don’t know how to solve a simple Excel sheet or how to decipher data, then why would I move forward with this candidate. So it basically trickles down. And what happens a lot too is they’re only hiring one person. You got to make sure that’s a perfect candidate. If you admit they’re good and they’re doing their role, you want to make sure that they make an impact on the role when they start. So it’s always… There should be a better way to basically have candidates who are more qualified.
onomy: Thank you so much. Give Jonathan a follow, he is amazing, does amazing work helping you find a career. So thank you so much. We’ll talk to you later.
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